Rambo gets his Gunn
Rambo is back. He may be older, he may be slower but, if anything, he's more violent than ever — as you'll be able to see on DVD from this week. And the man who brought the increased body count and gallons of blood and gore to the screen is the film's FX supervisor, British born Alexander Gunn. According to his IMDb profile, Gunn is a member of the Institute of Explosive Engineers plus, of course, he's an SFX whizz called Gunn. Seriously, does it get any cooler than that?
Screenjabber asked the questions, while Alex, presumably, lit the blue touchpaper and retired...
From Tales of the Riverbank to Rambo — has there ever been a greater difference between consecutive projects? Or can we expect a gun-toting hamster blazing up the riverbank?
“There’s not really a lot of difference between the two; there’s stunts and action and a huge explosion in both movies though I’ll leave you to figure out which one has the higher body count!”
You've done a lot of fantasy projects — Hogfather, Stardust, Charlie & The Chocolate Factory. While the differences in the end product are the same, is there any difference in the preparation for those than for a Rambo?
“That’s a bit like asking was there any difference between building my house and the Empire State Building! There was a huge difference between say preparing for Charlie and Rambo. Budgetary constraints decide the pace and scale always; time is the most precious commodity it buys. Charlie had something in the region of a 6-month prep period and a 24-week shoot, nearly all of which was studio based and all of which in turn was UK situated. Consequently support is easy to find and plentiful in supply. However, Rambo was an insane 3-month prep and a main unit shoot of 8 weeks with a 4-week additional 2nd Unit battle group at the end, with very little extra prep and all in the jungle!”
Is Rambo the bloodiest thing you've done? Just how much stage blood was used on the shoot?
“Without a shadow of a doubt, Rambo was the most gruesome project to date. We pushed the boundaries on Troy only to see all our hard work fudged out in the theatrical release, only for it to return in the director’s cut several years later. However, you really need that big screen to get the full-on experience. In Rambo we made our own blood and I can assure you that while 250 gallons doesn’t sound a lot, it’s about 5,000 cups of tea and we all know what a mess spilling just one makes! I also was charged with overseeing the prosthetics department, where we also produced several hundred corpses in various poses from shrivelled burnt skeletons to full picture-quality close up models for various painful ends — decapitations, eviscerations and total body destructions ... even full-sized cows.”
There were an awful lot of explosions in Rambo — most of which, we can plainly see, were physical effects and not CGI. Were there many close calls on the set?
“As with any action film that relies heavily on explosive destruction of people and property, there is always a chance for catastrophe. I run a very tight ship, and working alongside my Thai counterparts, ensured that all the stringent safety protocols I use were always enforced. I set myself a target to outdo the body count of the previous Rambo outing, which was successfully achieved without either a single injury or anything that would be considered even a distant call. For the Tallboy bomb explosion, for example, I detonated 200kg of high explosive along with 250 gallons of petrol — I had a team of local wildlife experts in for several days beforehand to ensure disruption to local animals was kept to an absolute minimum. With bullet hits on youngsters and old alike, and with the massively destructive .50 calibre sequences, many smaller pyrotechnic devices were used on protective plates but were cushioned in such a way that the performers were only really aware the effect had happened when they saw all that blood.”
And what do you think of the over-reliance of CGI in filmmaking these days. Do you prefer the old-fashioned way of doing things, with physical stunts and so on?
“CGI is like any other tool in the filmmaker’s toolbox. Used sparingly and with artistry it will enhance or create something that would otherwise simply not exist and be prohibitively expense to construct. However, overexposure to what is obviously a physics-defying move or similar feat of impossibility simply renders the entire storytelling process void. Titanic had fantastic CGI and also amazing mechanical rigs that totally absorb the viewer; you simply marvel at the scale of the spectacle.But over-use of green rooms and “we’ll add it later in CGI” can result in wooden performances and stilted action — such as some recent space-bound odysseys.
“For me, you can’t beat doing it for real. We as humans are mentally tuned to certain actions and movements, and can tell the difference between what’s real and what’s faked; the subtleties of flapping clothing as a shock wave impacts prior to the explosion, for example. The close link between stunts and effects means that dangerous events can be recreated relatively safely, for other peoples’ enjoyment, whilst maintaining that element of real risk to completely sell the spectacle.”
How much fun is it working closely with Stallone on the physical action and fight scenes?
“Hugely!! Sly is a powerhouse, a shrewd motivator and a fantastic director. Anyone that gives his SFX supervisor virtual carte blanche for a big battle scene has to rate about as high as you can get in my book! He does expect and demand a lot, but that’s what we’re there for — to bring to life ideas. He expects as much from his cast as he does from his stunt performers and crew; no room for wallflowers here. I must also say that everyone took on the idea that we were there to make a war movie and not a love story, so there was no room for trailer comparisons.”
How much input did he have in how you put them together, or did he give you free rein?
“The script changed radically from its original form. We were never going to trash the Karen village quite so graphically at the start of production, but as the plot developed and Rambo himself took over the directorial reins, the scale and scope of the violence increased. Whilst Sly produced the script, the 2nd Unit was charged with filling in some of the blanks for the action scenes. I was indulged in my desire to have a high body count, burn, blow up or otherwise destroy as much as possible and with as much realism as our audience could be expected to stomach. The ethos was to produce a war movie for a generation of viewers anaesthetised to ultra violence and wake them from their collective stupor and remind them that war isn’t fun, but bloody, brutal and indiscriminate in the dispensing of life-changing events.”
Is your job essentially the same regardless of genre?
“Not at all. My job isn’t all about blowing stuff up; though the other gags required such as rain, smoke (for atmosphere), mechanical rigs and suchlike can be found in more relaxed movies too. We tried to make a monsoon sequence as realistic as possible for the night time Compound sequence requiring overhead rain rigs suspended from cranes, with specially cleaned filtered water pumped up from high pressure pumps. We used our entire stored capacity of 137,000 litres in one take on one occasion. Other gags can include making sinks practical on stage sets, fume extraction for gas fed fireplaces — the list is endless.”
What’s the difference between a SFX Floor Supervisor and a SFX Supervisor?
“A lot. The Floor Supervisor is responsible for the preparation and execution of effects on the set, location or studio floor; while the Supervisor is responsible for the overall effects department, its integration within the other departments such as construction, costume etc as well as the design of effects, sequences, sourcing and training the SFX crew, equipment procurement and on and on.”
You used to work on TV shows including Red Dwarf. We guess there's a big jump in budgets from that to, say, Rambo or Stardust. Does that make life easier? Harder? Or do you enjoy the challenge of the financial constraints?
“Bigger budgets mean grander sequences but in turn attract larger headaches. Smaller budget productions tend to rely more on ingenuity rather than manpower to solve problems, though TV budgets have increased in some genres over the years as worldwide sales ensure greater profitability. This in turn means a more discerning and wider audience, and for us better gags to show. The golden era of big budget commercials however has sadly passed on. Sometimes it can be a lot of fun on a small show, as there’s more room for personal input on a gag because ‘if it works, let’s shoot it’.”
You've worked with some big-name directors — Spielberg, Stallone, Singer, Petersen. How much input do you get or are you working to their specific plans? And what were they like to work with?
“They’re all great! Hmm. The best description I can give you of any movie director is it’s like working for a benign dictator. Some can be more patient than others, but nearly all are happy to listen to ideas and suggestions for a gag or sequence. Spielberg is extremely particular about how everything looks, from the clothes worn by a character right down to the shape and size of the bullet hole that’s going to be in it. Our task in the sfx dept is to come up with a number of options and hope they’ll pick one.”
Do you agree with the general consensus that Judge Dredd would have been a far better film if Stallone has just kept that damned helmet on?
“Well, yes, obviously! Dredd is supposed to be a mysterious character, almost mythical, like a cross between Dirty Harry and the Pale Rider. But Hollywood expects... It was a tough film to work on; I think the finished product is much better than a lot of people give credit for, though die-hard Dredd fans will disagree. One can’t deny the look of the film though — the set was incredible, and was a glimpse into a possible future that seems more likely and ever closer each passing day.”
How did you get started in this field? And what made you want to work in special effects?
“Ever since I was kid, watching tv shows like Doctor Who and Thunderbirds, I thought that looked like fun and that’s what I want to do when I grow up. I pursued a course of subjects through school, then art school and finally film school to get myself trained enough to work on a film set. There are no real special effects courses; engineering or model making are the best skills needed for this kind of work. I came in through the latter path, working on many of the more well-known large scale TV commercials from the 80s before making the jump into movies. It’s all I’ve ever done as a real job, and this year I’ll have been doing it for a quarter of a century.”
As a kid, did you like to blow things up?
“You don’t really expect me to answer that do you? Hahahahahahahaha”
Do you have any ambitions to direct?
“Perhaps. I’d love to be given the chance to direct an action sequence for one particular historical event that would make a fantastic movie; the Battle of Trafalgar. Nelson was a childhood hero of mine and the opportunities for large scale effects in such a battle scene alongside dramatic performances would certainly be my dream job. Imagine building full-size replicas of those huge galleons, then blowing the crap out of them!”
Which is the best project you've had the most fun working on?
“In all honesty, Rambo is the high spot of my career to date. Troy was hugely enjoyable and probably the most physically demanding show I have ever worked on, with the scale of battle scenes unlikely to be repeated for some time. Charlie had it’s fair share of challenges, such as producing over 250,000 gallons of artificial liquid chocolate for the river and a further 50,000 gallons for the waterfall as well as the plumbing to get it to work! Lost in Space was a fantastic project to be involved with as it was my first time as Floor Supervisor on a blockbuster. However, without a shadow of a doubt the fun factor was set to max on Rambo.”
What are you working on next?
“The Wachowski brothers are producing a big-screen, live-action version of a Japanese anime show, The Ninja Scrolls. The film is called Ninja Assassin, with Rambo’s Stunt coordinator Chad Stahelski in the 2nd Unit Director’s chair along with his business partner David Leitch. There’s also a few other familiar faces from Rambo too, so I’m in good company! But who knows what may follow.”
• Rambo is out now on DVD — read our review