'There was something mischievous about him'
Anne Wollenberg chats with megastar Johnny Depp about his role as John Dillinger in Michael Mann's Public Enemies
What was the draw of playing an outlaw like John Dillinger? He’s a bona fide American folk hero.
JOHNNY DEPP: When I was about nine or 10, I had a fascination with John Dillinger. I don’t know why, probably not a healthy one. There was something mischievous about him, something intriguing. In terms of taking on the role, it’s the idea that the guy was called public enemy number one, but he was never an enemy of the public, ever. That I found intriguing and challenging.
What is it about this sort of character that fascinates the public?
JD: If you think about where we were in 1933, which is not unlike where we are now, the banks were the enemy and they were taking the knees out from under everyone. And John Dillinger arrives on the scene and says he’s going to stand up against these people. I think what’s fascinating for me is he’s the guy who says: “I’m not going to take it. I don’t care who you are, I’m not taking it.”
You sang in Sweeney Todd, and now in Public Enemies.
JD: I almost broke into a dance. I just might now.
Have you been bitten by the singing bug?
JD: I’ve only been bitten once. I sang in Sweeney Todd because basically I had no choice.
And you sing a few lines in this film.
JD: Is it in? I’ve not seen it!
Do you not like watching yourself?
JD: If I can avoid the mirror when I brush my teeth in the morning, I will. I find security and safety in the most profound degree of ignorance. I don’t like watching myself in movies because I don’t like to be aware of the product. I like the process.
Can you get your head around your own success?
JD: I went through 20 years of what the industry defines as failure. So for 20 years I was defined as box office poison. I didn’t change anything, but that little film Pirates of the Caribbean came around and I thought, yeah, it would be fun to play a pirate for my kids. I created the character the same way I’ve created all the other characters, and nearly got fired, and it changed my life. I’m super thankful that radical turn happened, but it’s not like I went out of my way to make it happen.
How does approaching a character like John Dillinger differ from a character like Jack Sparrow?
JD: There’s a sense of responsibility to their legacy. With John Dillinger, there’s an enormous amount of information on the guy, but there’s a great gap with regards to who he was. There’s footage of him, and endless photographs, but there’s no audio. It’s just an attitude that you get, so that was the dig. How do I find this man? How do I find the way he speaks? What made it for me was when I made the connection that John Dillinger was born in Indiana, and raised in Mooresville, Indiana, about two hours from where I was born and raised. It was at that point that I thought, now I know him, I know what he sounds like. He was my grandfather who drove a bus in the day and ran moonshine at night. He was my stepfather who did time at Statesville Penitentiary.
Of all the characters you’ve played, which is closest to the person you actually are – and which one is the furthest away?
JD: The furthest away might be Willy Wonka. Let’s hope that’s the furthest! The closest to me will be really revealing, won’t it? There’s probably three: Edward Scissorhands, John Wilmot in The Libertine, and maybe Dillinger.
Did it help knowing you were in the same location Dillinger himself had been in?
JD: That was one of the amazing things Michael Mann provided us with, that level of authenticity. To be able to break through the exact door that John Dillinger broke through, as opposed to just shooting using a soundstage because it’s cheaper. I will thank him forever. To be able to fire a Thompson out of the very window John Dillinger fired his Thompson out of. Literally to be able to walk in the same steps that he took was magical. Not to be spooky, but there were moments when I felt his presence.
You only share one major scene with Christian Bale. What was it like working with him – are your acting styles very different? Christian tends to stay in character…
JD: Well, I don’t do that, although if you have to do that, that’s alright. I enjoyed working with him. It was two guys with a similar respect for one another trying to present different angles to each other and I enjoyed it very much. He’s a very gifted actor. When we saw each other, which wasn’t very much, we talked about being dads. That’s really where we connected.
What was it like working with Michael Mann?
JD: I think Michael’s style and my approach did compliment each other. When you’re building something, there will be things discarded, things will get broken along the way. It wasn’t the easiest right off the bat. But in the long run, what we were able to figure out together was that he’d present something, I’d present something, we’d find the happy middle and we’d get there. I have a tremendous amount of respect for Michael as a human being and as a filmmaker. He’s not joking. He truly means it.
How difficult was it to let go of Dillinger when you finished filming? Over the course of your career, what character’s been the hardest to say goodbye to?
JD: There’s been a few. The funny thing is you don’t really say goodbye. It’s like there’s a chest of drawers inside. You can always access these guys, they’re always around. I’m not sure that’s healthy, but they’re always there. Saying goodbye to Dillinger was tough because it was like saying goodbye to a relative, but the most difficult was Edward Scissorhands. The safety of allowing yourself to be that honest, to be that pure, to be that exposed, that was hard to say goodbye to. John Wilmot, Lord Rochester, in The Libertine was incredibly tough, because it was a very tense 40-something days where I had the opportunity to be that guy and I felt a deep sense of responsibility so it was like a marathon. Then suddenly it’s like a light goes out.
John Dillinger probably saw Manhattan Melodrama as his last ever film. If you had to see a last ever film, what would it be?
JD: It would be Withnail and I, without question.